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You Say Tomayto, I say Tomahto
R. Alex Whitlock
I had a conversation yesterday about grammar. The indirect question was to what degree proper English was necessary and demonstrative of intelligence. For a writer-type, I somewhat surprisingly come down on the side of laxivity. As far as I'm concerned, if the idea is coming across, then the rest is just specifics. She, on the other hand, felt otherwise.
The specific object of our disagreement was y'all (plural) and ya'll (singular). I only use the former, though I don't get particularly annoyed when I head the latter. I actually only rarely hear ya'll in the singular and wasn't even aware of its existence until relatively recently.
Of course, there are those in the north that argue that neither is a word, but until they can come up with a contraction for "you all" I figure we're in the clear.
In the case of "ya'll" (or "You will" or, in the sense it's its used "you should" or sometimes just plain "you") it's a regional dialect that she feels gives credence to those that feel that the people from the south are lacking in intelligence.
Maybe so. It's an interested question in regards to language integrity. Perhaps people will never all use perfectly correct grammar and vocabulary as defined by the Oxford dictionary - in fact, I think the world would be a more boring place is everyone did - but there is a case to be made that there ought to at least be a standard with which every dialect is drawn from and dialects that deviate from that ought to be considered abnormal so different spices of the same language remain the same language.
Theo Dalrymple bemoans the
dumbing down of English in Britain:
I have noticed the same phenomenon on various wireless stations as well. It is clear that certain announcers have been told to use the short ‘a’, the long ‘a’ having unacceptable connotations of social superiority. Moreover, in railway stations that have no compunction about using as announcers incomprehensible Nigerians and Punjabis for whom English is their seventh language, the announcements giving the good news that the stations are no-smoking areas and that something nasty will happen to those who infringe this regulation is always given in what one might call exaggerated standard pronunciation, just as in Hollywood films the cultivated English voice always stands for unspeakable evil. Thus our population is being subtly indoctrinated with the idea that received pronunciation means prohibition and restriction. The glottal stop means liberty.
It seems to me unlikely, however, that the changes that have come about are the result of any welling up of an insistent or irresistible demand from below. Even the bolshiest Briton is so idle that he will not protest at received pronunciation, however much he might hate it. No: this is yet another sign of that peculiar combination of self-hatred and pusillanimity that characterises what Marxists used to call the ruling class.
It's an interesting hypothesis and one that I don't actually doubt, to a degree.
A long time ago I made the acquaintance from Pasadena. I found out later that he didn't like me very much at first because he felt I was a little stuck up. Why? Because of my word usage. That is to say that that I spoke English above the Pasadena standard (it ought to be noted that my friend's grasp of the language is strong and that is not the issue) and he felt that I was a bit stuck up. Because of my control of the language.
He's not the first and he probably won't be the last. As I've gotten older, my English has actually gotten a little bit worse, in a way, because I've made efforts to start using more simplistic language (in person, at least, you won't see much simplicity on here) in large part to avoid turning off my fellow Texans that don't place a particularly high value on fancy-talk and intellectualism.
The alternate course of action is to declare it "their problem" and keep speaking as I so choose (with precise wording and generally correct structure). On the other hand, language is, to me, about communication. If what I'm saying is colored negatively by the words I choose - even if those words are wholly inoffensive in their intent and, indeed, their actual meaning - then I am failing to communicate. If I exhibit an accent in order to make someone more comfortable talking to me (which I frequently do when meeting someone knew that is obviously of limited education - at the old
truckstop for example), then I don't percieve anything particularly wrong with that.
It's the Marxist in me, I guess!
 
Observations
 
Y'all (along with other regional gems as "you guys" and "youse") showed up because of the English language's lack of an unambiguous plural "you." While using "you" in a plural sense is accurate, it can lead to an awkward construction or ambiguous meaning.
People who use "Y'all" in a singular sense ("ya'll") are almost always from a different region and trying to make fun of Southern vernacular. They only display their ignorance with improper use.
I've never heard "Ya'll" (singular) used by anyone who has spent any decent amount of time surrounded by native Southern dialect.
My formative speech years were spent in the midwest, so I have some deeply ingrained verbal habits. However, after spending the majority of my life in the deep South, I have developed some interesting linguistic idiosyncracies: I use "y'all" and "you guys" interchangeably. I also still pronounce my Rs fairly well, although they've certainly softened unless I'm concentrating. I also tend to drop Gs pretty frequently.
It's human nature to use accent to denote intelligence and personality, although it's certainly a socially learned trait. Think about a Ph.D from the Bronx... a gangster from Canada... a slacker from Tokyo...
That's the absolute genius of the commune segment of Monty Python and the Holy Grail - the "progressive" peasants were given accents that are widely held in Britian to be our equivalent of a thick Bronx or Southern accent - not one associated with deep thinking. It's a level of humor that American audiences often don't get.
As to the primary point of your entry, I have to say that grossly improper grammar does tend to make me question the education level of the speaker... I'm not quite as worried about lax construction (e.g. "I got here as quick as I could"), but at the very least, you should have tense agreement, proper verb usage, etc.
Look at it this way: if you don't know which of the five forks to use for dessert, it doesn't mean that you're an idiot. But if you're eating steak straight off the knife, it might say something about your background...
 
I'd be interested to know if you think you're losing anything by speaking plainly to your fellow Texans. My contention is that it's a rare case where short words can't get the job done, and the extra syllable are used to impress someone (maybe even yourself) besides the person you're talking to.
I'd also add that many more Americans got the Monty Python joke than may be imagined -- and that was at a time where regional accents were at the tail end of being acceptable (even possible) in America.
 
I didn't say anything about not speaking plainly, nor did I mention anything about using 25 cent words, so I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. I try to use the right word for the job, not to mention the context and audience, hence the utensil etiquette analogy. Only Miss Prissy Pants is going to be upset if you use the wrong fork for the salad. A lot of people might look twice if you're shoveling meat with a knife, though.
My info on Americans not getting the accent joke came from one of the pythons (I think from the laser disc commentary audio track), so you can blame them for the assumption.
Why do you think that regional accents aren't possible or acceptable? We've got tons of regional accents. *Pointing them out* might be un-PC in this oh-so-enlightened age, but that doesn't stop them from either existing or provoking a reaction on the part of the listener.
Did I misinterpret your remarks?
 
My question was meant to be addressed to Alex ('turning off my fellow Texans.').
I don't think that regional accents are not possible and not acceptable. I rejoice in them, and their word usages (lingo is probably a better term), and always have. My point was only that they are on the verge of being wiped out, probably in a couple of generations, as national media takes over the airwaves and blankets North America. It's disconcerting to hear Iowa high schoolers talking and switching between SoCal surfer-talk, Detroit rapper talk, and Iowa farm-kid talk, each complete with their own accents, grammar and lingo. That's anecdotal, but I doubt that I'm the only one that's had it happen to him.
 
Scott,
No, I don't believe anything is really being lost by using shorter words. Occasionally it means I'm not as precise as I'd otherwise be, but truthfully and honestly language doesn't require that high level of precision and whatever precision is lost by shorting my words and sentences is gained by getting the actual point across to the person that you want to be getting the point across to.
I'm not sure I ever use long words to "impress myself" (though I have, admittedly, used them to blend in the same way I've used simpler language to blend in the truckstop). I just like playing around with words and experimenting. It leads me to use complicated ("impressive") language as well as using completely made up (unimpressive) or newly coined words. It cuts both ways.
I agree, it'd definitely be a shame for accents to be eliminated. I like different regions being different (and I'm, of course, partial to my own region).
 
TA,
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who years "ya'll" used more by northerners to make fun of southerners (and southerners to make fun of themselves - in a way that I don't see northerners ever do, interestingly enough) than in actually southerner-to-southerner conversation.
I agree with you somewhat on tense consistency and verb usage. though I do make an exception for someone whose first language isn't English, it is important to at least get that much right or else the listener has to spend more energy than he should trying to "de-code" the message.
 
Laxivity?
Better watch out when you're dumbing down your language for your fellow Texans. They might ask if you mean laxity. :)
 
Just goes to illustrate my point: Proper language is dumb :).
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