Filling in: Arresting drunks just for being drunk
Mike Ahlf
The Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission has apparently found a new way to infringe on the rights of Texas citizens.

On the one hand, we have laws against drunk driving, which I think are sensible enough perhaps. Considering that the level of impairment of missing a night of sleep has been scientifically proven to be just as bad for your driving as having a BAC around the legal limit, I'd say that perhaps our ever-plummeting legal limits are making it into a bad case, but that's another discussion.

However, especially around Dallas, much of Texas was settled by alternating bands of drinking, and fervently non-drinking, religious and ethnic groups. As a result, the "blue laws" (e.g. laws governing the sale of alcoholic beverages) vary wildly and in very close quarters. My friend once took me on a "Tour" of Dallas which included, every few blocks, "and now we're crossing the line where you can/can't buy alcohol after X hour (if at all)".

And there are apparently a few old, old laws on the books similar to indecent exposure laws, that say it's illegal to be drunk in public.

Where does the TABC come in? Well, as they claim, a bar is a public place.

Therefore, the thing to do is send a swarm of officers in and arrest everyone - in a Bar - who happens to be drunk.

Their explanation - that they were trying to stop these people from doing harm to themselves or others - doesn't hold water. If it were a nightclub where police knew regular drug sales were going on, and they raided and grabbed everyone who had Pot or Ecstacy or some other illegal substance on them or in them, I'd not be sympathetic. But a bar is a public business, that pays the state for a liquor license already. It is an acknowledged business where proprietors are supposed to play by the rules, and where the rules are clearly laid out. And the rules say that they are allowed to sell adult alcoholic beverages there, and patrons are allowed to purchase and drink them.

The explanation from the TABC is that it's about "public safety."

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.


They might hide this one behind the guise of public safety, but face it, they sent officers in to raid a legal business and arrest patrons whose only crime was purchasing, and imbibing, substances they were legally allowed to purchase and imbibe. I can't see it as a public safety issue; far from it, it looks clearly to me like a campaign to harass the owners and patrons of a legal business that someone with a little too much power and a little too little common sense happens not to like.

Further, it's getting into a very dangerous realm. Now you're not arresting people for what they have done - because they haven't broken any laws, or if they've broken one, it's an outdated one that needs repeal. None of these patrons were arrested for fighting, or attempting to drive drunk.

No, they were arrested for the fear that they might do these things. Arrested for what they "might" do, rather than anything they had done already.
Posted to Land of the Free
 
 

Observations

 
aldahlia wrote:
My Dallas friends are flipping out about this one, because someone in the circle got busted... for drinking... at a bar.
3/23/2006
 
ATruett wrote:
Why not just hang out outside and arrest drunk people as soon as they get into the driver's seat? If that were truly their reason, you'd think they'd do it that way... rather than, "nope, I don't buy your story about your sober girlfriend next to you being a designated driver. You're obviously planning on driving drunk. So we'll arrest you preemptively."

Heh -- sounds a fair bit like Freakonomics' infamous abortion argument...
3/23/2006
 
SAM wrote:
The reason to be really outraged about this -- the reason it is a real danger and not just a stupid nuisance -- is the power of selective enforcement. Overly broad laws are the perfect tool for the crooked sheriff or corrupt bureaucrat, and lead inexorably to corruption.
3/24/2006
 
Kavey wrote:
Laws, such as this, are very weird indeed, but just because you have the right to drink and adult beverage, doesn't mean you need to get sloshed off your ass. As a matter of fact, the bartenders are suppose to prevent that (when possible). Limiting alcohol intake, and throwing people out when needed, and even taking ones keys and getting them a cab.

It's almost like the right to bear arms. He's you can own and carry a gun, but do you have to be armed to the teeth with automatic assualt riffles?

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the TABC either. I think they are pushing their limits too far, but at the same time, after talking to East Texas residents in a local convience store after purchasing beer to take home and they say "Better not take [insert road here] the police are patroling there for drinking and driving." How nice, a friendly person warning me about the cops. I thanked him and left, but instead I wanted to say "that's ok, I'm not stupid enough to drink and drive."

It's idiots like these that have law enforcement thinking they need to take extra steps. Even if it is beyond their true scope.
3/24/2006
 
RAW wrote:
Mike,

Weren't you arguing a couple months ago that bars and business establishments are *not* private? If the state can regulate smoking in a bar, I don't see why it cannot also have the power to regulate drinking in it.

I can't say that I agree with what they're doing (I'm not sure how much I disagree yet, though, as I need to read up on it further), but it's a little late to argue that bars are not public places.
3/26/2006
 
MIKE wrote:
RAW,

I'm not arguing that a bar is a not a public place - simply that the basic premise (that they can arrest people for being in a bar, which purchases a license to serve liquor, and drinking said liquor) is an incredible leap.
3/27/2006
 
RAW wrote:
By most accounts, though, they're not ticketing people for simply drinking. They're not administering the breathalizer test for .08... they're ticketing people that are splat-faced drunk. Most accounts I've seen (including hostile ones: http://lonestartimes.com/20...) say that not a whole lot of people are getting ticketed.

I have probably been drunk enough to get ticketed on multiple occasions (it was really nice having the Firehouse within walking distance for that year and a half!), so I'm not at all immune to this. And I'm still against it for at least a couple of reasons (I consider bars to be sufficiently private to police themselves in this manner and I'm against it for the same reason I'm against the anti-smoking laws that increasingly make my life easier). All that said, I can as easily see this as a misguided attempt to be more proactive rather than a power grab or abuse of authority.
3/28/2006
 
ATruett wrote:
Except they're not saying they're trying to crack down on drinking. They're saying they're trying to crack down on drunk driving, which is not at all necessarily something the people they're ticketing will be engaging in. That's what gets me.
3/28/2006
 
RAW wrote:
Yeah, that part rubs ne the wrong way as well. On the other hand, making sure that people are afraid to get plastered would cut in to the alcohol culture that allows for or looks the other way for drunk driving, hence my use of the word "proactive."

Using one law to tackle a different problem (money laundering, for example) is not unheard of. And presumably the TABC could say that they don't have enough people to be at every bar at 2am and therefore they are sort of staggering it out.

In another analogy to the smoking thing: one of the biggest reasons the anti-smoking crowd give for just about anything is the danger of lung cancer, but by their own admission not everyone who smokes will get lung cancer. They go after everyone cause they don't know who the harmful ones will be.

None of this is to say that I agree with the policy, because I don't, but after further reflection I just don't consider it nearly as outrageous as many others do.
3/28/2006

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